So if Ukraine was behind it, was it a war crime, or a lawful act of war?

Transcript

1. A judge in Warsaw wasn't deciding who blew up the Nord Stream pipelines.
2. But if it was Ukraine, he said, it was "justified, rational and just".
3. German prosecutors call it a war crime.
4. Nord Stream carried Russian gas to Germany, along the floor of the Baltic Sea.
5. On 26 September 2022, explosions tore through three of its four lines,
6. 80 metres down, off the Danish island of Bornholm.
7. Nobody was hurt.
8. German prosecutors say a small team did it from a rented sailing yacht,
9. on false papers: divers, a skipper and an explosives expert.
10. They say it acted on orders from Ukrainian state agencies.
11. Kyiv denies any role.
12. On 14 October, the man they say led that team went on trial in Hamburg.
13. Serhii Kuznetsov, a former officer in the Ukrainian army.
14. He gave the court his name, then stayed silent.
15. Through his lawyers, he denies the charge.
16. That charge is a war crime: an attack on civilian property.
17. His lawyers call the pipeline something else.
18. In their words, a Russian weapon.
19. And in a war, they argue, the enemy's weapons can be a target.
20. So if Ukraine was behind it, was it a war crime, or a lawful act of war?
21. Europe's prosecutors and courts have already given different answers.
22. Sweden and Denmark closed their investigations without charging anyone.
23. Poland refused to hand over a second suspect,
24. a Ukrainian diving instructor.
25. That was the judge in Warsaw.
26. Italy handed Kuznetsov over.
27. Croatia has agreed to send the diving instructor to Germany,
28. and he is appealing.
29. And ruling on his detention,
30. Germany's top criminal court said the pipelines were civilian infrastructure,
31. not a legitimate target.
32. Now his lawyers have asked the court in Hamburg to stop the trial.
33. If the judges agree, the question may never be answered in a courtroom.
34. You're stopping there?
35. It's a Reel.
36. The rest doesn't fit.
37. Then tell them where it does.
38. This was an invitation.
39. We made a whole episode on this case for our podcast.
40. 37 minutes.
41. The diving instructor who, reports say, left Poland in the boot of a diplomatic car.
42. And the one line that didn't break.
43. Of the four, one survived that night.
44. Nord Stream on Trial.
45. In the Pollar app, or wherever you get podcasts.